Manual said:It's the other way around for me. If I find a dancer is all over me on the floor, the booth turns out to be LM or they tend to upsell. Maybe that's how it works with guy PLs. Lol. Exactly right in my experience. If they are trying too hard, it is all upsell and bs in the back. I know i am contracdicting common sense here, but honest to God the girls seem to be pissed if you test drive them as opposed to straight to VIP where they seem flattered as hell. The last girl i took to VIP was a perfect example, she said something like" you know what you like and went straight for it, i like that" Now we are in a pretty hot & heavy half, and i have been taking quite a few liberties and she has responded very well. I got to feed, i got some good grindage, and now i have a couple fingers in deep, when i realize i don't know her at all this is our first dance. So i say,"Is it OK?" and she says sure, you were nice about it, you waited until 15 or twenty minutes. The guys i hate are the ones who pay the money and before we even get a chance to talk, they  start taking liberties. She said if you wait a few minutes until i get warmed up, pretty much anything goes. Now i would say almost all my straight to VIP sesssions are like that, i can go slow because i bought a half. Because i start out slow i go far. Why waste money on test drives. Also, once you come into the club and are known for going straight to the half are girls going to be happy if you test drive them? So I pretty much am stuck with my strategy, luckily for me it has worked out so far.

LouASS said: knottyboi said: Nadine is probably my all time fav. Physically she was not my type but after about 2 minutes talking with her i took her to the VIP. When i met her she had just come to DVNH from the Inland Empire somewhere and was not getting any dances in NH. I could not believe it but word got around quick. I rarely watch stage shows, but i came into the club when she was on stage so i sat down at the rail. She was totally naked and had that big smile on her face, the next thing i know she is just masturbating like crazy up there, friggin her clit and then shoving her fingers into her wet pussy and laughing as they made that tell tale sound. A true exhibitionist with a fun sense of humor. a dream girl.   -->Is this the blonde petite dancer Nadine from DV-COI?  I believe she was one of Doc Robbie's ATF's from that place. If its the same dancer, I had no idea she moved to DVNH.   I don't know Doc Robbie. I do know she had been living in the IE and i think she was working Rialto or Redlands. She might have worked COI, at sometime but all i know is she had broken up with one boyfriend ,was living out in the IE and was making some long ass commutes because she wasn't selling any dances.She was a very thin Blonde, cute smile & face, quite a few tats. One of her best friends was either Iris or Ivy, i always got those two mixed up. Whichever one was deep into bondage:) She was quite a character. A real sweetheart and really funny too. One day we were talking and dancing and the subject of home made porn came up. She just blurted out " I love making secret movies, my boyfriend got pissed when he found out i was taping but mainly because he thought he looked fat on camera." She was really a free spirit and somewhere there is a very lucky guy/gal or both. I remember she told me about an ex who didn't trust her and it really pissed her off. She said something like, if i wanted to, i could fuck all day at work. But i always come home to you. You've got a great thing and don't appreciate it. If i feel like fucking there is nothing you can do about it anyway, so you better get used to it:) One other time we were fooling around and i put my cock between her tits and starting grinding russian style. She starts yanking on her nipples to bring her little boobies together and then says "I can't do it, there's nothing there" and we both start laughing so hard management came by and told us to shut the fuck up. good times.

Manual said: Ronin said:Sign of a great dancer, Nadine has been gone for about 3 years now and guys are still talking about her fondly. :) A couple days ago one of my buddies was talking about Nadine. Nothing but great memories. Has it been 3 years??? Damn bro, time goes by fast. Her dances are fresh in my memory. Your buddy knows how to pick them! Yup May or June of 2010.

Nadine is probably my all time fav. Physically she was not my type but after about 2 minutes talking with her i took her to the VIP. When i met her she had just come to DVNH from the Inland Empire somewhere and was not getting any dances in NH. I could not believe it but word got around quick. I rarely watch stage shows, but i came into the club when she was on stage so i sat down at the rail. She was totally naked and had that big smile on her face, the next thing i know she is just masturbating like crazy up there, friggin her clit and then shoving her fingers into her wet pussy and laughing as they made that tell tale sound. A true exhibitionist with a fun sense of humor. a dream girl.

Now reading some of your responses, my reply is gonna sound like a shill for VIP the club. But honestly when you can go somewhere and get a half for $100, it doesn't hurt that much to fly blind vs going somewhere else, dropping 80 bucks on bad test drives and then driving to another club to do it all over again. The test drives is where u lose your money. At least for me. I would go into a club with maybe 300 dollars in my pocket( this was 20 years ago) i would see a girl get a topless, it would be only ok, more hustle than anything. Try another girl, she was better so i would try a nude. Eh. do this a few times, waste money on waitress tips as i sat waiting for a decent stage show. Look at my watch, crap i have been here almost an hour, go to take a pee, check my bank and realize i had spent VIP money and was still looking for something fun.By the time i got home i would be down to 30 or 40 bucks. Shit i could have got that hot girl for 2 VIPS and come home with more money in my pocket. It is like that scene with TomCruise in Risky business, " so you are out a couple of movies, popcorn, soda, candy, parking, dinner and what did it get ya?" she slept with some other guy...

And i honestly cannot remember a bad half hour doing this. Part of that is Zbone research. I go into the club with a girl's name in mind who was on the role call. Then i check out the stage show of the other girls and what they look like. If a girl is really my type i will fly blind, and it has always worked out well. Mostly I look for girls who seem like they are in a good mood when they come out of the back. I avoid the girls who try to hard when they are selling you the dance. Anyone who promises how hot it is gonna get in the back while they grab your upper thigh or your crotch is simply a hustler. I learned that 25 years ago. Someone who is good at what they do, does not have to try too hard. On the opposite end up the scale beware of someone who likes to act like she is above all this. This was the closest i had to a bad half. Princess (should have known with that name) yeah she was cute and gave a nice grind but that was kind of it. No chemistry.  With her as the exception, all the other girls were positively thrilled to do a half with a guy up front with no test drive. It was like it validated them that they were worth some guy spending the money. So i think it gives them a little extra juice.

No offense taken and i understand here is my experience. I would go to a club see a hot dancer on stage, give her a couple bucks, then take her for a spin. If she was any good, i would end up doing another dance. So i am out like 40 plus stage tip. I look at the cost per minute and if i want to spend any MORE time, like 3 more dances, i end up worse off than if i had went on a good day and got a$100 VIP. It took me just a few trips where i tested 2 or 3 dancers and ended up spending more money than if i picked one & did a VIP straight away.

and just for intel, from my personal experience i have never went into VIP and not had most of the girls ask me for dances. They seem to stay off the cell there. I also rarely see a guy sitting without a girl and all the times i have been asked it is very low sell.  So it is kind of the way i remember clubs used to be, cute girls come and sit on your lap and chat. If you like them you get a dance, if not don't worry another girl will be there in a minute or two.

Not really a rejection story just an observation here. Reading about the girls who refuse to do "cheap" dances. I learned a long time ago, it was more cost effective to do a VIP than getting a couple dances here and there. So when i roll, i just pick out a girl and do a VIP. Most of the time it is my first meeting with them, They ask if i want a dance and i say "how about we do a half hour?" Most of the time they look shocked, like what the fuck is wrong with THIS guy. But then the session ends up pretty great. So what is funny to me is, these girls act like they expect you to buy half hour up front, but if you actually do? Well you can tell by their expression it doesn't happen. That means most of these girls are actually rejecting their real customers, either by ignoring them or being downright rude. Sometimes it is really fun to go into a club and picking out a girl when all the others are texting their asses off. Knowing after we are done her friends are gonna ask "where did you go?" and she will say "that guy that nobody asked, asked me for an hour and a half!"

It's funny i realize the questions in the OP get tiresome to some of the girls However I have been asked most of those same questions by dancers. I don't think i have ever gotten a dance without the girl asking me if i am married or dating, If i have kids, what i do for a living, why am i at a club. etc etc. While you may hate the questions, i can state for a fact that alot of dancers are the ones who are bringing up those subjects. So some of us figure those are the things you want to talk about. Now Carmen said something about being turned off by guys asking about dancing outside the club, basically because she thinks they are cheap. Fair enough. But sometimes when i ask a girl her schedule she says something like she works on & off so then she gives me her phone # and maybe we can set something up outside the club. I don't take my phone into clubs anymore because one enterprising young girl wanted to make sure she had MY number as well. She grabbed my phone during the dance ,called her cell with it so she would have my number, Then she said if i forgot to call her not to worry she would call me so we could set up something otc. More money for her.

Celine was fucking amazing. If you have ever had steamy sex that you had to open a window for air, that's the way her dances were. If someone went into that booth 5 minutes later it still would have been 10 degrees hotter than the rest of the club and smell like sex. One time she asked me if we could lap doggy style so she could finger fuck her pussy while i came against her ass. and she asked like she was ordering a diet coke "how about today we...."  I gotta tell u the sound of that  finger working hard in that  soaking wet pussy pushed me over the edge.then she takes my hand "feel how wet i am now" it was like your own personal porno in the back. amazing This post was edited by knottyboi at September 1, 2012 11:58 PM PDT

Boobs was the only thing i saw that she had done.

@Dani for me the problem with tipping goes back about 10 years ago @ the VU. I had been going there whenever i was in town and had the chance. Then one day i am in town i go to take a girl to the VIP and she tells me it is gonna be like double the price because only the ugly ass house dancers work for that price. I told her no thanks. It happened over & over. I thought holy crap this place sucks. Girls wanted a minimum 80 dollar tip on a hundred dollar half hour. Some $140. Louis and a few other guys i am sure can back me up on this. Then by chance i get asked by Celine . I say how much and she says 100. she says she gets enough business no one has to tip her. When i did she was surprised and very nice. And that has been my way ever since. You ask, you don't get. Be nice and you get a nice surprise. Its just a sore spot with alot of guys. I can think about when i was very young before lap dances.I remember going to clubs and girls would promise all sorts of things you tip them, and then nothing. At the age of 20 or so i was in a Strip Club in Chicago, this dancer sits down next to me starts whispering all this stuff in my ear about what she will do to me in the back room. In the meantime she has unzipped my fly and is giving me a wicked hand job. Then she says something like the hj is free but if you want the good stuff you gotta pay more. I can't remember how much i gave her but as alot of old timers can tell you that was the last i saw of her. She went into the dressing room and never returned. SC's used to be real ripoff joints, and asking for a tip brings back alot of bad memories. This post was edited by knottyboi at September 1, 2012 11:24 PM PDT

Coquille said:Talking about good lookers, saw Her Royal Highness this month. One of the best lookers ever to grace this club. I have to disagree. I thought she was cute, but not beautiful. I have danced with a few of the original Jedi's and others and I felt Princess was kind of full of herself. She said something like " i don't dance here much because i have alot of regulars" I took her straight to VIP just from her rep and was very disappointed. I got in the normal position of face to face privates to privates and she kept moving to side saddle no contact. First time in 20 years of this club that i have had a dance like that. WTF? She said something like" i worked out too hard and my legs are sore i need to sit like this, next time i will give you a better dance" Nice, Well go meet your regulars, i will stay away. I would say The White Tornado was better looking. As was Karly. And Celine. and a handful of others. Just my taste i guess. And for dance quality, even if i got a bad one from Princess i cannot see her being like Celine  who was fucking amazing!  so was Siren. Andrea kyso so many times i lost count. I realize Princess might have had a bad day but even the people who sing her praises say shit like she has an attitude sits in the back glued to her phone. Sorry attitude is a big thing for me and makes a huge differnce in the quality of the dance. 

Ronin said:I don't like the idea of using two names. It gets confusing. I think two names indicates porn performer. I think it is a great idea to use technology and Internet to promote yourself. I agree completely especially with the part i highlighted. This site if used properly is a wonderful marketing tool for the dancers. They post photos which will catch the eye of the customer "oh she's my type" as much as a stage show with flashing lights or trying to figure out what a girl looks like in a darkened club. In addition the girls have the chance to post comments and send pms so they can give you more of a glimpse of their personality than in a "wanna dance "flyby in a club. IME girls who are imaginative,fun & keep this business in perspective are the best to dance with. I have to admit there are a few girls who have posted on  here that i would never have gotten a dance with under normal circumstances. Not really my type/look when i go into a club. But after getting a glimpse of what is underneath, i feel like i have more of connection to the girl, kind of like i have lapped with her for months before.

only porn stars use two names like only assasins and beauty contestants use 3 names the single name makes it more casual and random 2 names has more complications for management and customers "Is Jasmine there?" "Which Jasmine?" "Gosh i can't remember" "Princess Jasmine?" "Yeah that sounds right, yeah Princess jasmine is she working today?" "Nope, try Disneyland"... and other clubs and dancers are not gonna have any of the "Oh my name is not Carmen, it's Carmen San Diego that's what i work under at the VY so i can do it here too" girls already complain about girls stealing their hair color, customers, choreography etc etc etc can you even IMAGINE the crap that allowing dancers to use part of another dancers name would bring to the dressing room? unbelievably stupid idea! If i was a newbie i would simply find out the top earners names before i went to work and that would be my stage name. i do not want to speak for the girls but do u really think Cassandra & Carmen would appreciate somegirl calling herself Cassandra Carmen? No matter how nice you are when someone walks in and says he heard there was a really good dancer named cassandra or carmen or maybe cassandra carmen how the fuck would u feel in this economy? Just not fair

Carmen said: YUP! So true...I have had people buy dances just to sit and talk...I always feel a little guilty doing that though...I feel like no matter how much they say that's all they want it can't be true...So I always dance at least some or ask multiple times are you sure you don't want me to dance...or if a song I really like comes on I'll request that they let me dance that song and see how they feel after that...if they get into it and stop talking I'm guessing they are enjoying the dance...If they start talking again I figure maybe they really do want to talk...I've had all kinds of fetishes...feet, shoes, pain, dominatrix, dirty talk, white panties...all kinds...as long as it isn't intruding on the rules or my boundaries (and to be honest most fetish dances are more respectful of rules and boundaries than any other) then I find it very interesting and different...as long as your enjoying it, I'm more than happy to slap you around, step on you with my heels on, put on a pair of white panties, or role play a little....Those dances are a break from the "daily grind" (lol I'm so punny hahahahaha!!!!) and usually super fun and easy....plus I love psychology so I always wonder just what is it about that certain thing that turns them on so much...anyways that's my 2 cents :)   First this reminds me of what my psychology professor (who was a practicing psychiatrist as well) taught us. A good therapist is like a good friend. They listen to you vent and go on and while supportive allow you to find your own solutions. There is no book to intrepet meanings of dreams for instance. Dreams are personalized to each person and their life experience.  I can't remember exactly the example but this one patient had described a dream where a train went through a tunnel, so the doctor believed it was about sex as is a common intrepretation. Turns out the patient used to go watch the trains pass where he lived as a small child so it was more of a longing for his childhood then anything sexual. Many people find someone like a dancer much easier to talk to because of the enviroment and a dancers life experience having common ground with their own. For instance almost every girlfriend i have ever had expressed at one time or another that they felt like they were two people trapped in the same body. The little princess and the whore seems to be quite common. The demonizing of sex by society instead of it being recognized as  a natural physical & emotional urge neccessary for the continuation of the species. One reasons cathlic schoolgirls are so screwed up and so good in bed, they never really reconcile that their most primal urges are natural and everyone has them. Every girl i have dated has told me that i allow both people inside her  to become the one person she is instead of having to suppress one side of herself. Dancers have to live through that   reality every day. they move about in the real world as non strippers then go to a club and help guys fulfill their fantasies. Who better to understand that we are all complex individuals with a wide variety of needs. The dancers, like Carmen, who understand that and look at their job as more of an opportunity versus a punishment are the women who not only are successful dancers but are well balanced productive members of society.   Now there are some people, me included, who find it very relaxing to do something non sexual in a sexual situation and vice versa. I had an old girlfriend the first time we had sex we were watching some bad movie on tv. So we used to get turned on when certain things came on tv, we practically broke the headboard during a three stooges marathon. On the other hand i have had dances that literally went a couple hours where we talked about everything but sex. Now most of those times we did a slow ,sensual but very hard grind the whole time, sometimes the dancer even went and got her lunch and we ate it while we "danced". Now to someone walking by i am sure it looked like we were just talking as there was almost no movement at all. But trust me those dances were as sensual and sexy as any that KMSO So some people enjoy dances that are not "dances" in the typical sense,

i always let the girl do what she wants, if she's happy i'm happy. If she does not enjoy doing what she does with free reign it will show and i will go elsewhere. I have hardly ever went elsewhere :) Let me put it this way. My first girlfriend was an ex dancer. She was a knockout, I was lucky as i was young & naive she took charge, it was amazing. Years later i have yet to see even a porno approaching the raunchiness of this girl. She basically just used me like a fuck toy and got me off over & over. However anytime i initiated sex she went into a coma. She told me later she liked to take the lead, and me doing it was too much like work. I stored that little tidbit in the back of my brain. If you let the girl direct the action they tend to be more aggressive but also more relaxed. Let the girl get into it, relax and go at her own pace. It might take her awhile to warm up but once they get their motor running the dances become awesome.

I need to say one more thing and i really believe you should ponder it for awhile. You believe that a dancer could not legitimately like someone that they only do so because they are paid to do so. I believe otherwise. There exists the possibility that we are each right based on our own experience. When you get a dance you get what you are expecting. The dancer knows and there for gives it to you.When i get a dance my approach is different, my expectations are different and therefor my result is different to yours. It is impossible to define my experience from your perspective and vice versa. Even if we could ask the dancers their perceived intrepretation is influenced by far too many factors to be absolute. So you are a PL because that is what you believe yourself and all others to be. Dancers pleasure is based purely on a monetary basis because that is their job. I appraoch the situation from the opposite perspective and am quite happy with the results and the dancers i know agree. I don't consider them whoring themselves out for the money and most of the dancers mention my different approach and attitude as well as the enjoyment of the experience. Sometimes in a nonverbal sense:) So u get what u r seeking and so do i. only sometimes i don't have to pay and u do.

Manual said:PL is like the term ******. Take it and turn it around for your own people. even tho this was edited pretty easy to see what term you meant by your definition. and i agree. It's sad but it's a fact that dancers use the term even toward good customers, A girl has to be very strong to not get sucked into the negative atmosphere, it is a defense mechanism to use the term PL and it is much easier for the girls to talk trash amongst themselves, Guys do the Bros before Hos and the girls have their Girlpower. I don't take it personally because the girls do not know me well enough to really be making that statement. I think there are more than a few girls who might use the term PL but really enjoy spending time with the right guys and consider very few actual PL"S. So for the girls using the term literally, oh well And the guys have just co opted the term to take the sting out of it.

this brought to mind when i was young and living in Europe. I spent alot of time going back and forth between London & Norway for work. the English guys thought they were so cool and were real players and that Norwegian girls were naive. Because i was American and actually not acting like a jackass the girls let me in on a little secret. they sabotaged the English guys by teaching them the best pickup line in Norwegian, guaranteed to get a girl into bed. The guys thought they must be pronouncing it wrong as they either got laughed out of the club or had a drink thrown in their faces. The Norwegian guys were not about to help(No Bros before Ho's in Europe) I knew the secret tho. the girls had taught the guys to say the phrase "Hi.Did you know a short stout one is better than a long wobbly one?" the joke ran for quite awhile. Yup we can be pretty gullible

jetfuel888 said:Completely disagree that intercourse is the sole indicator of UHM. Everybody has their own gauge. Really? well for years the mileage definitions were used without any problems but you want to have your own gauge? Fine go ahead. If everyone were to do as you say the whole idea of defining dances really goes down a slippery slope. Maybe the site is not what it used to be because people reject the standardization that was the norm for so long.I do not see near as many reviews on this site as Zbone 1.0 and maybe the longtime pls figure why bother. With the responses here making everything more subjective rather than clearly defined as before i see reviews as being basically worthless.

@ Carmen Funny about your friend but if u r a meat eater in Memphis it would eventually come up. small world tho, about the finger Yeah if you look at your middle finger if u hold all your other fingers up and move the middle down like the opposite of flipping the bird you will see other tendons pull on the index & ring fingers which keeps the main tendon centered over the knuckle. When the supporting tendons tore it moved the main tendon into the space between the knuckle of the middle & ring finger. not pretty. they have to immobilize it until it repairs itself surery on the hand from what the hand specialists told me does not work well immobilazation and then intense therapy is the only real remedy, so you get put in a cast flipping the bird for a couple months. then you spend another couple of months in pain trying to regain motion. first they bend the first joint a few degrees, which is difficult once you get that mobility which takes weeks they move to the next joint . I was out of commission from June until december..

Its downtown on front st. http://www.thebutchershop.com/memphis/index_new.htm that is the one i went to. there is another in East Memphis, not sure if that is closer to work for you but the downtown one is pretty good and been there for years. One thing that is kind of fun is you can see how bad people are at cooking, Guys burning their steaks, etc. A great opportunity to meet people(or should that be meat?) On a side note i had a medical problem when i was in Memphis that u might enjoy. Long story a dancer hurt my finger, no not what u r thinking and no not that kind of dancer either. It was a pretty bad subluxation of the middle finger and i went to the ER at Methodist. they took a look at my hand, when i would start to close it, the tendon would slide off the knuckle and move over to the next finger. this was accompanied by intense pain not unlike sticking your finger in an electrical socket. The ER DR asked me to demonstrate i did so painfully trying not to scream. He says"hold on let me get someone else" then he brings over a surgeon and asks me to demonstrate again. I asked if i really had to as it was damn painful. they said yes, they had to know what they were dealing with. So i did it again, and the surgeon says to me and i quote "My God i have never seen THAT before, we will schedule you for surgery tommorrow at 8 am" then he left. Well it took me all of two seconds to realize if a surgeon had never seen my condition before he really was not the guy i wanted to be cutting on me, So when the coast was clear i made a beeline for the door, i got out the door and i hear people calling my name. Methodist has this big ass lawn in front o the hospital and it took me what seemed like forever, nurses and orderlies yelling at me to come back here. They were pretty mad but i didnt care. I ran well over a mile back to my hotel taking an indirect route so they could not put my name to the hotel. I ended up going to a specialist in Boston and another in LA, two of the best. When i releated the story they were both shocked as surgery was totally the wrong approach and would have done alot of damage. The specialist in LA was laughing and said "I bet the surgeon was from Vanderbilt, they are notoriously bad" Friends of mine tease me whenever i am near a hospital that i will go running in terror with half the staff in pursuit screaming "mister Johnson, mister johnson come back here NOW! mister johnson!!!!"

Tillrules said: 3). Extras/very high: This is everything else. Anything involving a sexual act, including extended masterbation through the pants. Differentiating beyond this level seems pointless to me. Once you get to the level of the dancer intentionall causing the customer to orgasm, you're at the highest level. Gotta disagree with you on this IME most dancers have this intention, but that is not a VH UHM dance or extras.  I thought the Zbone definitions were spot on and i do not understand the problem. hm is a good grind where the girl allows alot of access. UHM is the deed and VHM is things like extras bj, hj outside the pants etc. If you are not actually fucking with penetration that is great but do not call it UHM. If you are getting other extras that might send you to jail as a SE that is probably VHM. If you are grinding her with your pants on that is hm no matter how fun it is, Most customers do not rate dancers solely by mileage.My best dances sometimes are far more sensual and consequently rate in the lm category. Just because it was a great experience does not make it high mileage. pretty basic. Enjoyment and mileage are not the same thing. Putting Nascar into the same category as intercourse would be wrong. For instance i remember a dancer at VIP lots of fun but low mileage. We are standing at the bar getting the dance ticker she reaches up the leg of my shorts and starts jerking my cock and says something along the lines of she enjoys giving dances to guys who know what they are doing and dress the part.  By your definition that was the same as fucking, fun, very fun, but in my book just fun. I rated the dance as low mileage as we just had a nice little grind, she did not allow much feeding as she was sore. but the enjoyment factor and sensuality was off the charts. When i reviewed her on Zbone 1 i did not get graphic but i said it was basically a low mileage but highly enjoyable and sexy dance that KMSO. Guys put 2 and 2 together after awhile. You know what the girl is doing, you will have a great time. leave satisfied without her having to break the law. the over use of the term UHM would do nothing to define the dance and would bring the pressure from locals & LE. I say stick to the definitions as they have been set up for years. note any mention of questionable sex acts in this commentary are purely the fantasy of a sexually repressed individual and in no way should be construed as proof an illegal act has in fact occured :P

Carmen said: this little red head is a carnivore ;) Hey since you are in memphis do you ever go to the butcher shop steak house where you pick out & cook  your own steak? The steaks are so thick there all my friends got plastered before they were done cooking and just ate them rare. Oh i just remembered the name of the Hotel with the ducks there the Peabody! You should get a stripper duck costume together you know a little bikini with some yellow feathers and see if you get some customers to follow you instead of the ducks. Remember, stripping is just good marketing! This post was edited by knottyboi at April 4, 2012 6:48 PM PDT

when i saw the topic "how they hang" reminded me of a couple of old bad jokes. two guys stop to take a piss off a bridge, first guy tries to impress the other "man that water is cold" second guy one ups him "Yeah and it's really deep too" another one first guy " i got my girlfriends name tattooed on my dick. see? it says wendy" second guy "mine says wendy too. only when it gets hard it says welcome to jamaica have a nice day" the third joke is more of a visual a guy lets call him.... Sal. goes to the psychiatrist and says"DOC ya gotta help me, I am obsessed with  tits. I can't stop thinking about them. So the doc says we will find out whats going on lie down and we will do a little word association tell me the first thing that comes into your mind Ok Bosom tits woman tits balloons tits cantalope tits basketball tits tits watermellon tits tits windsheild wipers tits tits TITS! the doctor can't believe it stops the session" Ok, i get all the others. but how the hell do you associate windshield wipers with tits?" "Easy doc, when its raining the wipers do this" he then moves his head from side to side making kissing noises sorry its more visual. Hey the topic IS bad jokes.... sorry Sal you are the bignaturals expert so the first person i thought of.

I figured i would share an older story since there have been no posts here.  I had seen this girl a couple times. She was an ex dancer from Bobs CL who was escorting. Besides the sex, she was a fun person, nice to talk to, One horny day i call her and drive to her apt. complex for a nooner. As i get within a mile or so i see an unusual amount of police cars. I don;t think to much of it until i get to her underground parking and she buzzes me in. As she does there are two cop cars coming in right behind me. As i get off the elevator i look up(open apt complex) and the place is swarming with cops. they are on the roof, some are on the same floor as me walking in all directions. I get to the door and rush inside. She can see i am really nervous and when i tell her why she tells me to calm down we aren't doing anything illegal...yet. I didn't think that was too funny but she got me to relax. She said if the cops came we are just old friends having some fun etc. Then she told me her real name and some other personal info(she already had mine from being screened before by her) anyway we got to talking and an hour ran into many more. we actually became pretty good friends. So i have the cops to thank for that. After i left she went out and talked to the cops to find out what was going on. turns out there was a naked guy running around on the complex roof. Only in LA. freaked me out pretty bad at the time. I had visions of the scene from "risky business" with all the cop cars "Joel this is your mother, do as they say, just, get off the babysitter"

@Monga there u go with the "civvies" crap again civvies are the loosest out there swingers clubs were built for all the people who WANT to be sexually unihibited and overcompensate for their boring civilian lives by screwing anything that is still breathing.

IN addition women candidates get a substantial financial stipend so they can quit there current job or reduce hours to train for the test. ANY WOMAN can request financial aid from the City by merely expressing a desire to become a fire fighter.They even pay for a free gym membership in addition to the stipend. I suggest ALL strippers make some extra money by applying for firefighter. Even if you fail the test they will continue to pay so you can pass the test eventually. Not real smart for a city that is broke. Again peoples rights are comprimised for another group. When you are a white male you pay for services that you can never receive. That is not being treated equally under the Constituition, so that is an attack on your rights. simple. Everyone gets the same opportunity, if you comprimise one groups chance you are attacking them.

Also you mention unquallified white candidates. You cannot rewrite history. Simple. None of the minority candidates that applied when i did were skipped over. So a level playing field would not have hurt them. Here is something else you probably do not know. As most women failed the physical firefighter test. The test was comprimised to allow them to pass. Also the test used to be scored on points, so if you were very good you did not have to be as good at the written or vice versa. In addition to reducing the physical standards they made the test pass fail. So many male minorities were comprimised for the sake of women, as they are today currently.

I appreciate your concern, i knew when i signed up i had a snowballs chance to actually get a chance so i moved on long ago. I appreciate the fact that you know that you cannot right a wrong with another wrong. Ask yourself this, any idiot knows this, and yet they tried it. Why? You used the term of paranoia, when peoples freedoms and rights are jeopordized i do not believe that saying you are being attacked is an exaggeration. When someone does something so stupid you have to ask yourself why? I will answer, the City knew they could deny white peoples rights and get away with it for a short period of time,Long enough that if they made the most of it they could raise their minority numbers high enough to satisfy others. Even though they took away the rights of people like me to pursue my job.

@SAX you think white people are paranoid because they think they are being attacked. Well here is my experience with reverse discrimination. Friends of mine from high school signed up to take the LA firefighter exam as soon as they were eligble. I waited a little longer.In between The City passed a policy that minorities would get priority due to a consent decree. So minorities& women got extra points and got to take the test ahead of me. The consent decree was rescinded as it was ruled unconstituitional. However the City did not change their testing policy and still gave preference on race I waited the maximum time(I think it was between 7 & 10 years ) and was never allowed to test. I was offered a chance to keep my current spot by signing up again but was informed i was only 6 months from reaching the maximum age limit for new recruits, so most likely i would not be eliglble to take the test. Is the fact that i had hundreds of women & minorities "jump the line" and get ahead of me in a move since ruled illegal as reverse discrimination just my "paranoia" i doubt it since the courts say otherwise.

DanthaMan said: " Problem is, I'm attracted to white women so 1) why should I spend my hard earned money on something I don't like? "   OK if you don't think this is a racist statement you are just a troll. LouASS loves women with big booty, he doesn't say "white women with big booty" the fact that you mention your preference is race based means you are a racist.

cASSandra said:don't come in trying to be captain save a hoe telling me i'm "too pretty for this" (i'm too pretty to flip burgers) or i'm "too smart for this"  this part of your post had me laughing so hard.  i know what you meant but i just picture the opportunistic guy who reads this and gets a dance from you and says "Oh Cassandra you are the BEST, Of course you are great at grinding down on my weiner because you're too UGLY & STUPID to be good at anything else..." Somethings are simply common sense, but i can see the problems with some of your pet peeves. Older guys started getting laps when your arms had to pinned at your sides otherwise a bouncer would stop the dance & rip them off. Guys frequently say things that girls have asked them. I have had girls ask me if i think they are pretty, some girls want to play the part of  a princess some want to be a whore. USUALLY the girl seems to be trying to read the guy to see what kind of girl HE wants so he will get more dances. It's just another level of stripper shit. Girls know the basics of mens behavior, we have a need to fix things, so girls tap into that. "My car is broken/I need a car" or any number of dramatic scenarios so the guy thinks he is not exploiting the dancer his money is actually helping her make her life better. What we really need to do is breakup stripclubs like Disneyland. Tommorrowland becomes fantasyland. Guys who want to roleplay go that that part of the club. Snow whites castle is where guys go to meet princesses Mr Toads wild ride is for guys who are looking for extras Thunder Mountain is where guys go to just have girls pound down hard on their weiner Zoe can be in charge of the tea cups, guys who want to make their head spin until they have no idea where they are :)

jaytee669 said:Dantha, you are hardly one tocomplain about prewjudice, since you admitt that you like white girls, not hispanics, blacks or Asians. One of my Latino buddies told me there is a different tradition towards women, especiually working girls, in Mexico, and maybe some girls, including Hispanic, don't like it. It's more that the guy can do whatever he wabnts if he's paying. But look at yiour first statement; it's racially prejudiced. Against all women except whites. Think abourt it. Exactly right, we should have a like button on these comments.One thing i was thinking of racism wise is how in this discussion all Latino's Latina's are treated as one. And then i remembered the prejudice and ezplotation of South & Central American women in Mexico. Always talking about racism in the USA and yet ignoring the racism & explotation in Mexico. The very fact the the OP is not interested in anything but "white women" and then belittles this country and people for it's racism is pretty sad.  Without getting into long drawn out political discussions, the OP should actually thank his lucky stars he lives here in SoCal and has access to so many clubs. I know of a state where you can count all the titty bars on two hands and the girls are just plain sad. Funny i just noticed after all the advice the OP headed for a club in Compton. Yeah alot of open minded white women there. Unbelievable. sounds like this guy is trying to be unhappy. Dancers on here say come to the Valley i will dance with you, guys offer the same advice"go to the valley" and yet this guy persists in doing what everyone tells him not to and then complains about the result.

ok nobody remembers the club in Agoura I was driving up Reseda Blvd and had a flashback about this club i used to go to near Reseda & Parthenia, some hot girls there, i thinkit was the Velvet Slipper or Red Slipper, Anyone remember that ? back in the late 70's early 80's

pdyo said:First "Accident" many, many years ago.....I looked into the eyes of the dancer and told her if you keep doing that I'm going to have an accident. She just smiled and said "yeah". Sounds kinda like the dancer nicknamed " primetime". we had a nice chat as we were dancing the first time, and she was pretty cool at explaining how things work. When she got me going she slowed down  a little and pretty much explained that she would make sure we had a happy ending. legal & fun. "You come here to have fun right? So just relax and let me do my thing" when the timer would get down to 3 minutes she would start working it and we had alot of fun getting off just when the light turned red. It was like a game. She taught me a cool little move that i have used a few times that all the girls really like. But i don't have " accidents" too much anymore, I have fun, but with primetime it was more than that. More than just getting off, it's difficult to explain. Imagine if your best friend is a hot looking girl, you hang out drink a little watch football, and then she says "let me get naked and see if i can get us off in 4min & 29 seconds. If i get it within 5 seconds you give me 20 bucks, if i can't i pay you 20... anything else seems kinda boring now...

LouASS said: -->Wiz that could be understandable if only a few strip clubs existed in L.A. County or if it was a main tourist SC attraction like Vegas were many high rollers show up to them(clubs),  But with so many clubs here in Los Angeles competiting for our lap dollars $$$  It only makes sense to have competiting prices to draw customers in.   Even High Rollers like bargains not just average joe's.  (KB) I agree w LouAss. Vegas is a totally different animal. Basically tourist who are on a debauchery juggernaut. Booze,Broads & Gambling. Gambling either winning or losing gets someone in the habit of parting with large amounts of cash in a short period of time.  It's either "Hey i just won 1500 dollars playing BJ now i can get the full treatment at a stripclub to celebrate ...OrCrap i just blew 1500 playing blackjack, how could i be so stupid?FUCK. Oh well i think I'll go bury my troubles and my face in a young girls ample bosom at the strip club.In addition you have the "I'm going to impress all my friends that I am a big time baller" factor. Its Vegas you only live once, blah blah blah. That is why money flows in Vegas, along with complimentary drinks. In LA people are thinking about putting gas in the car and that stripclub will still be there next week and if they aren't well there is another close by. LA clubs need to attract customers with value. As LouAss says even people with money want a bargain. I have a friend who would easily drop a grand in a visit but refused to go unless he had a free admission coupon. WTF? But to him he figured he was paying good money he wanted something from the Club to show their appreciation. Why do you think girlt bags are such a big deal to celebrities? People earning tens of millions of dollars  a year and they will tear each other apart for some free shit? It would be like me throwing down over a junior frosty at Wendy's. I once stopped getting dances from this one girl basically over free admission coupons. I heard the DJ announce the coupon and i asked her about them and she told me next time. Well after i had spent about 2 grand on her over a couple of weeks i reminded her about the coupons."do you really want those?" "sure, why not? i can give you the extra twenty instead of letting the club have it, wouldn't you rather have it than the club?"I guess"wtf??? I figured what the fuck am i giving you any money for ? I don't expect you to give a shit about my money, you are stripper, but you dont want an extra twenty bucks for  YOU!!!? Fine i guess you don't need the money i wil let someone else have it.and i did and they were grateful.  

@NY you are so right. It goes both ways. I got a breakdown on tipping from an old Jedi. Not everyone tips but the guys who know when something is above average and deserve a tip usually end up with better mileage and walk away happy. I do alot of things that go against the common thought here on Zbone. I pretty much always blind lap and can't remember a bad lap doing so. Also i never get upsold anymore. not for at least five years. Because i tip up front another big mistake. However i got that advice from the Jedi it tells the girl who you are Tip too little you get upsell and crappy dance tip too much you are a PL and can get worked over for more money. Tip the right amount and you know what you want and appreciate the dancer. You both understand each other. bingo.

Dancer Doxastic said:I forgot to add...there's a stripper forum and one of the things dancers post repeatedly is to ask customers for tips. I rarely do because on zbone 1.0 girls were ALWAYS called out for it. Is it sad that zbone has that kind of control over my hustle? One of the ways girls hustle is by being your "friend" and "helping"  you know girlpower!!! that's when girls screw each other over Years ago at DVNH almost all the girls were asking for more money. It was like a frickin union. Almost no one would do dances for the standard rate. Half hours were 100 but girls would tell you only the ugly losers danced for that, they needed 160 because they were special. But the biggest earners were the girls who danced for the going rate and guys were pleased and tipped because they felt they got a good deal. Who was talking smack in the back of the club about the PL's thinking they can get dances for 100? Yup those same girls telling the newbies to stick together and never dance for the going rate. Hardcore bitches 1, newbies 0 girlpower!!!! I understand the need to trust your co workers but PL's can tell you alot of what those girls tell you just ain't true. I remember one dancer telling me about a situation she was having with another dancer "Hey i don't HAVE to steal other girls customers" I bit my lip as i didn't want a face full of diet coke but i almost blurted out "but you do! You do it all the time, hell even i was another dancers regular!!!"...  

cASSandra said:oh redheads AND irish catholics!? you just hate everything about me, don't you!? it's ok... i'm not a natural redhead. lol. Sorry not a hater just a coward. But since you are not a natural redhead maybe i can handle the irish catholic part.:) True story. i was knocking boots with a blonde irish catholic and during a little break she found out i was never baptised. She become obsessed by the fact that i was going to hell because of it. I was kind of shocked because she was pretty nasty in bed & she was not at all worried about going to hell for that. Actually now that i think of it. all the crazy girls i have known who were great in bed were blonde Irish catholics. Natural blondes  too. Crap! Just when i think i am out, they pull me back in again ...what days do you work again? :)))

Carmen said:well I Promise to leave my wool plaid skirt at home then....DANG what am I going to wear now.... funny that reminds me of my favorite big bang theory scene where sheldon helps Penny get dressed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG5JXz7PPDA&feature=related

Speaking of closed clubs, what was the name of the club out in Agoura that had the Huge sign by the 118 freeway? I have been racking my brains trying to remember. I met a couple of fun girls out there including a hot little bartender.memories:)))

I am unable to watch "River Dance" for the same reason

I guess my dislike of redheads goes back to my childhood I was traumatized by a gang of older Irish catholic schoolgirls the mere sight of a freckle or a wool plaid skirt can cause me to hyperventilate and pass out. nothing personal :)

You know i think this is kind of crazy. Someone debating the value of seeing a favorite dancer who has moved ? Please, As a long time customer of Clubs i have really enjoyed getting dancers from many girls who are no longer here. I would gladly pay to reunite with one of them if only for a day. Benn echoes alot of PL's feelings when he reminisces about some of the all time favorites who, unfortunately , we can no longer get dances from. Not only is this event fun because of a chance to see Carmen again but it also gives PL's a glimmer of hope that a girl never really is gone forever. Of course i won't be there as I have a dislike of redheads :P

LouASS said:It's happen to me before where I've gotten Mad stare down's, But most have been cool with me and don't give me any real heat about it. It's usually the veterans that know It's ok to try other Meat.  Knotty Well my little bit of drama was with a well thought of Jedi, she told me the same thing, the girls who have been around do not take it personally, blah blah blah. Unfortunately i forgot rule #1 never believe what  a woman tells you. Like an idiot i thought she was being sincere when she said it was ok to dance with someone else. When i did,  i not only lost my favorite dancerS, but the whole club changed. Even though those people are no longer there, the few times i have returned the bad memories come flooding back. I think it is just better to not have any girl consider you a regular, it seems like fun but is really counterproductive to the reason for going to a club in the first place. Easy going fun and when you walk out the door it's over.

lm= low mileage not much grind hm=high mileage good grind lots of contact vhm= some dispute whether this is just a really good dance or includes "extras" fs= full service an escort term meaning intercourse there used to be a zbone glossary of terms somewhere

Manual said:They won't even try to approach. Back of the line pass, if you cross her. I once was a regular to a dancer. I would always get a dance from her everytime I went in the club. I'd show up late, with a bunch of PL's in line for her, but she would go to me first giving me a front of the line pass. I wanted a change of pace since the last 5 times I went to the club, it was all "old dancer." I saw a "new dancer" I have always wanted to try out. I denied "old dancer" a dance, because the last 5 times in the club, it was all her. "Old dancer" got pissed off. Everytime I went in after that incident, she always hits up other PL's first, then comes to me. My front of the line pass, turned into a back of the line pass. I had a similar situation with a girl but she employeed the "nuclear option" Apparently after i turned her down for a dance and got one from a different girl i became persona non grata. I had been a regular at the club, the next time i went in no one would talk to me, not the doorman not the waitresses, not the bartender. I thought WTF? finally i approached a waitress and asked her if a particular dancer was available "she's busy" she snapped "what about..." but she quickly cut me off "they're all busy!" Now i imagine some tall tale was told at the club. I waited awhile for things to cool down.  i showed up again at the club about a month later and a girl who i had gotten some great dances with reluctantly agreed to dance with me. The dances were pretty damn cold especially in comparison to before.Totally ruined the club for me. My "regular" who told the big lie eventually left the club, the girl i danced with instead of her got fired even though she was a top earner at the club. While it sucks to have other PL's in line in front of you things could be alot worse.